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Bfbc2 Or Bf3 Editor?


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He'll probably prefer holding his breath himself :lol: but I'd save it too.. As for all ive read they do not plan for one..

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  • 3 weeks later...

I believe DICE's position was that the Frostbite engine would be "too hard" for modders to learn well enough to justify the cost of development. They did say that if there's enough support from the community they'd consider it... But I still wouldn't hold my breath.

In any event, I'm sure there'll be tools to mod created by some hacker down the line if DICE doesn't do it themselves, who knows, maybe DICE will surprise everyone! I'll get the game nonetheless; even if it's just to see what we're missing out on ;)

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Lol, CB - i honor your positive attitude but doubt that DICE will fulfill it - after all they had a newer editor for making bf2142 ( look at the header in a bf2142 *.tweak to find an all new version :P ) and we never could lay our hands on it.

Either they were fed up with the negative feedback from some goons about the BF2 editor or they stopped releasing files for modders due to a new restriction from EA. Have a look at the discussion about lightmapsamples for booster content and you know what i mean:

http://forums.electronicarts.co.uk/battlef...50-modding.html

especially posting dates. You don't even find a definite 'yes' or 'no' from Baza.

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Well, quite a few really, not so much in recent years though. Certainly the recent Battlefield games haven't been great for mod support. BF Heroes I can understand why they didn't support mods for, considering it's a free game with Korean-style purchasable extras. BF2142 was after EA bought DICE, and it's just coasted on the BF2 modding tools.

But the Command and Conquer games after they took over and shut down Westwood, despite ruining the series, did still have good mod support.

With the Battlefield series, the modding does definitely keep them selling the game for longer. Like I said, if they wont invest the time into making tools for modding, people will find a way to do it anyway. Now that they seem to be in a rivalry with the CoD series (with posts like "Dedicated to our players") - they will be in a rush to finish up for release. On the positive side, dedicated servers available to the public does imply at least SOME support for mods.

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It's the EA effect, they don't allow them to waste time on us modders when they could be knocking out another quick game, so the shareholders can buy another ivory backscratcher... Name a EA owned game that has good if any mod support?

Crysis. Best. Editor. Ever.

Although are Crytek owned by EA? I don't think they are.

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Crysis. Best. Editor. Ever.

Although are Crytek owned by EA? I don't think they are.

Good (map) editor, horrible engine to mod though. And even with that you do see the money grabbing influence of EA. Cryteks support of the modding community post release has been considerably worse (imo) than with farcry. Quite why they held on to the files necessary to export models for so long is beyond me - it was stand alone to the sdk and didnt change at all from what the pre-release mods had (they're documentation was even better than what was relseased to the public).

The reality is that games companies now have real pressure to churn out so-so games as frequently as possible with the occasional substantial release - eg Heroes, BF1943, BFBC2. Time that might have been spent supporting a mod community is now spent creating their own 'mods' that they can sell themselves.

Add in the console effect (which is where the money is after all) and basically we're all screwed - from the game companies/publishers point of view why would you support modding?

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Well, look at the Delorean from Back to the Future that was made for Crysis. It may not be easy to mod for, but CRYENGINE2 is pretty open to a wide variety of things. FarCry2 still hasn't had *any* modding support at all.

I don't think consoles represent as much of a share of the gaming industry as computer gaming, but I somewhat agree with the modding thing. However, Battlefield 2 still sold a lot of Special Forces copies, despite it being nothing more than a mod. I doubt it would have had modding support if DICE hadn't decided to make Special Forces. Using .zip format for archives was probably as much a time-saving and money-saving decision as a friendly nod to the modding community.

I'm fairly sure BF:BC2 won't have modding support though; if they've not said so yet, then they probably won't have time to remake what they have in a mod-friendly way. BF3, well, there's still time I suppose - although they've already announced it.

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I don't think consoles represent as much of a share of the gaming industry as computer gaming.

Wish it were so, the figures speak for them selves though. In 2008 the only figures i can find are $22 billion dollars for all game sales. $21.3 billion being console games. Their figure of $700 million for PC games is underestimated though as it doesn't include download sales (i believe). However, even in 2004 - before much use of downloading services and at the peak of pc game sales - sales were still only $1.1 billion. The console market completely overshadows the PC market sadly.

As for the other stuff, one car does not make a moddable game. I can create a new bf2 vehicle - modelled, textured, exported, coded and in-game in about two days, aside from the prettyness and fluff like opening doors it will be as good if not better than the same vehicle in the cryengine. About the same time for a hand weapon with fairly rubbish (im no good at them) 1p animations. Cryengine may look nice and the level editor is extremely good but as a mod platform it stinks.

Farcry2 was never due to have mod support. Not sure why you mentioned it.

Do agree though about the mod support and ease in bf2 being largely due to DICE's lazyness. If BFBC2 doesnt sit in a mod folder like bf2 does then i think our ability to do anything much will be severely limitied. That might leave Source and off the shelf game engines as the only viable choice for large mods.

One week after announcing a recession-bucking $21.3 billion in non-PC game industry sales, the NPD Group revealed that US PC software sales had plummeted 23 percent to $701.1 million dollars at retail. The drop to 29.1 million units was pronounced, given the trend of the previous several years: In 2007, the figure was $911 million, down $59 million from 2006's $970 million haul, which was itself a 2 percent increase from the year prior. Thanks in large part to WOW's launch, US PC game sales hit an all-time high of $1.1 billion in 2004.

(http://uk.gamespot.com/news/6203825.html)

Edited by PiratePlunder
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Well if you saw the BF3 "Lighting Leak" then they are still unsung lightmapping in BF3 maps. I don't think frostbite does use lightmapping, does it do it on the fly like crysis?

Well if they are lightmapping then I would hazard a guess that BF3 will we a similar structure to 1942/bfv/bf2 & 2142

So hopefully an editor will be available or maybe an old editor workaround available.

here's hoping.

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Well, the reason I mentioned the Crysis car is that it does so many things so far out of the ordinary of the game, such as changing time, the frost effect appearing on the texture at certain times, HUD displaying custom variables, somewhere storing the position of the car so that it can flash out of existence and then back into existence a few seconds later - it shows HUGE mod support. There's also a very large Ninja Mod with some quite out-there powerups, it's very mod-able. There's absolutely no way that anything in BF2 could be "as good or better" than the Crysis engine's support with the DeLorean, it's not just opening doors, anything you see in the movie has been faithfully recreated.

Far Cry 2 I mentioned because it uses the Dunia engine, which is based on CryEngine2. The point is, they're very similar, but one has a LOT of mod support, the other has nil.

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From what I've understood from people working at DICE the main reason they wont release mod tools for BC2 are these:

1. FrostED - The frostbite editor, uses technology from the PS3 and Xbox360 devkits which they cannot just give out or they would get their asses sued to planet bing bong by Microsoft and Sony, they would essentialy have to rewrite an entire new editor just for PC and document it which in todays gaming industry and economic recession is very hard to justify from an economic standpoint.

2. The tools they use are at the current stage are unstable, user unfriendly and complicated.

Edited by Fenring
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2. The tools they use are at the current stage are unstable, user unfriendly and complicated.

Sounds just like the bf2 editor :D

If its true about the ps3/xbox devkits then thats got to be a killer blow. Wonder if that's limited to the model exporters etc as opposed to level/map editor. I've heard various rumours that sound somewhat positive but until I see something concrete I'm not expecting much at all.

Uber - sorry but theres nothing out of the ordinary from what crysis does - the way the crysis engine is built allows 'fluff' like custom hud variables and various flowgraph stuff to be done incredibly easily. The reality is that from a large mod point of view the limitations in model export/set up particularly for weapons make it a very bad choice to mod, the benefit of the fluff (which are extensive thanks to the flwographs) are hugely outweighed by the core issues of any large (particularly TC) mod - exporting and setting up a huge number of weapons, player models and vehicles.

Trust me I know as I was exporting models for crysis before most people. We strongly looked at porting the pirates mod to crysis, but in the end although the engine was very unlimiting in what you could do, the workflow was just crazy. Throw in the very low player numbers and its a dead duck for anyone other than those who puts prettyness and fluff ahead of everything else.

RE Farcry2 - ubisoft were always upfront in saying that it would be unmoddable, just a level editor and nothing else.

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Although Crysis might be horridly unfriendly to mod for, the fact that the limits ARE so far out suggests that they'd planned it from the start. If Frostbite 2 did get some form of mod support, I doubt it would be for anything more than just the millions of "weapons tweaked to be more accurate" mods, you'd be very limited to the same underlying flag conquest mode. Actually, to some degree that's true in Battlefield 2 also. Good point about FC2 being honest about not having mod support, the fact that DICE isn't giving a straight answer COULD be an indication that they're considering crowbarring in some sort of support (not likely).

It's a shame if they do have parts of the Xbox360 and PS3 devkits in Frostbite; I'd thought Frostbite 2 was just a PC port of Frostbite, but I suppose it does make more sense if they're producing the game simultaneously on all 3 platforms.

Well, bugger!

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All true.

The main reason for crytek producing such a moddable engine is that they are at core an engine developer which they then licence out (although not very successfully seemingly given the cryengine2 take up) as opposed to a game developer like dice that at least for bff1942, bfv and bf2 used an off the shelf engine. At its inception crysis was little more than a tech demo of the cryengine2 although i guess when EA got on board that changed some what.

Don't get me wrong, I'm starting to sound very anti crytek which i'm not at all. Its just they really screwed up with crysis and the release of the sdk. Literally they sat on the export tools for at least 6 months and they didn't change one bit between the pre-release export tools and the eventually released public sdk. They also ignored everyone who wasn't in their pre-release teams which was completely shortsighted. Even after they got around to releasing the sdk, for anyone wanting to make a total conversion mod the documentation was dire and the workflow atrocious. Throw in their ridiculous bug fixing post crysis release that was only concerned in making the graphics better on high end machines and ignoring the terrible game play issues, not to mention the killing off of patch 1.3 (i think it was) at the last minute and you have stupidity on a whole new level.

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